The Feminism Problem (Part II)
If Part I of this series of articles on Feminism focused on the problem, this article will focus on the solution.
(If you haven’t read part I, click the link above and read it. Do not read Part II unless you have read Part I)
In fact, this series could perhaps be titled a bit better, as:
- The Masculine Problem
- The Decline of Masculinity
- How To Be A Man
Or something to that effect. But, because Feminism is such a loaded word (particularly amongst men), we reduce some of the stigma by using it.
As we discussed in part I, a problem exists between men and women and, I believe, its source can be traced to the feminist movement in the US. The divorce rate spiked shortly thereafter, and has leveled off at a rate of approximately 3-4x what it was pre-1960. Men, many many men, feel powerless and imprisoned socially. There is a growing resentment towards this imbalanced social dynamic, and men are beginning to act out in dangerous ways.
Ever hear the name George Sodini? Here’s a guy so angry that he killed three women, and then himself. He has posted some awkward and frightening videos online which bring you into his world. His is a scary, bitter, cold world. At one point, he casually points the camera at a well-known seduction book. Others have researched his background, and we now know that he has taken at least one seminar from a seduction coach.
The intent here is not to blame the coach – not at all. But, rather to try and understand why the George Sodini’s of the world are so damn pissed off. Here we have a man who is in his late 40′s and hasn’t been laid in nearly 20 years. That’s right, 20 years. Moreover, he rarely dated and would nearly never get a 2nd date. He felt clueless when it came to meeting women, and over the years the loneliness and powerlessness built into resentment and anger. This devolved into a truly horrific scenario. Now George clearly needed some professional help (not from a dating coach, but a psychiatrist), but his anger is something I see on a regular basis – with many clients, friends and certainly most men in the dating scene.
George is an extreme case, but there are MANY men out there whose anger is less deadly, but toxic nonetheless. Also, this problem is only getting worse. It’s high-time we looked for some real answers, a search for a real cure to the disease.
Men all across the world are learning tricks and gimmicks about meeting and dating women from Pick-Up Artists and Seduction Coaches. I happen to know most of these individuals, and nearly all are charlatans with virtually nothing to offer other than more frustration, confusion in your life and a lot less money in your pocket. Not a good deal now is it?
The PUA/Seduction community is an outgrowth of this angry subculture in need of power. And yet, it only aggravates and leaves a man more powerless than before. The thing that can give him power is not in a gimmick, silly costume or body position. So, once a guy forks over thousands of dollars, and months, maybe years of his life to “learning this stuff”…once he finally wakes up and realizes that he’s barely better off than he was before, this only adds to the angry fuel he’s had his whole life.
Powerless, confused and wildly misdirected…this is the new “average guy” in America.
What’s the solution?
Well, I’ve been working with guys for more than 5 years in dealing with the “women problem” and it is not easy developing game plans for the levels of frustration that exist out there in the male community. Most guys feel nearly the same as the next, and many are willing to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to fix their woes. Men are attracted to speed, quick fixes, and overnight results. And when you feel very very badly, the willingness to spend and demand quick improvement exponentially multiplies.
Getting my drift here? We not only have a problem of power here, but we’ve also got a problem of FANTASY too. No one appreciates the scope of the epidemic, no one is acknowledging the depth of the plague.
What we have here is a world filled with boys, in fact. And these boys, uninitiated and unschooled in the ways of men, want what they want and they angrily want it now. What they don’t realize is that the way up and out is a long(ish) way, filled with challenge, discomfort and discipline. And what they refuse to face is that the solution is not coming in a bag of tricks, a garment, a line or routine…no. Nor will it even come through the words of your favorite guru or dating coach. The ultimate answer to this dilemma will come from the one place most men refuse to acknowledge or face. It comes out of the single spot that he hasn’t a single clue about. The power comes in from a location with which he is hardly even acquainted….INSIDE HIMSELF.
Men know how they feel, sure. And, they can sure THINK a lot too. But, as for finding something inherently male and authentically HIS, guys are as lost as a cat in a swimming pool.
Lets attempt to deal with this problem, shall we?
If the essential qualities are a lack of power, autonomy and a vast feeling of resentment, then you’d better believe the solution – or at least the one that I propose – is no quick fix. This will not happen overnight. It might even take some of you a long time. But, if we care about our gender, and the relationships we intend to have down the road, we’d better damn well begin.
I see four phases of development. Over the next four weeks I will dive into each of these deeply. But, for today, I will provide a quick sketch of each.
Phase I – Fixing The Power Drain: Stop Objectifying Women
Part of the powerless problem is first identifying where the little power we do have GOES. I believe it goes towards a bitter objectification of women which provides the illusion of power, but nevertheless, fuels only fantasy and a retreat from reality and action.
Imagine this: You are the attractive woman in the club and the men all glance your way, some approach you and offer to buy you drinks, some even overtly hit on you. You are the object of their attention, and the wish of their desire. You fully know that you could have any one of them in your bed that night, or line up your date book for the next month with fine dinners and outings across the town. Sure, attractive women get tired of the attention, the whistling, the awkward stares because they know what it actually IS. But, secretly, underneath the irritation, behind the voice that says “just leave me alone” is a feeling most of us men never get to feel…
POWER.
Men constantly give their power away to women, which is the essence of seeking validation from them. It comes in all shapes and sizes, from the guy who wants to buy her drinks, to the guy who has spent hours and hours developing gimmicks and lines all to impress her. It is all the same. The objectification must be the first place we begin our work, as without it, the little amount of power we do have will continue to wane away, feeding the narcissism and social superiority of many women and secretly telling them all – we’re not enough for you.
What “Pick-Up Artists” and “Seducers” fail to realize is that what they promote and produce is mostly a dressed-up, fancy way of objectifying women and a very sophisticated process for leaking power all over a man’s life and world. One can become convinced that results are right around the corner only to be dismayed at the amount of work and learning there must be. The larger frustration though is when, down the road, the man realizes that all he has been doing is chasing a result that cannot fix his problem. No, in fact it makes him worse. More terribly, most guys never see improvement at all. Thousands of dollars later, they find themselves back where they started with lighter pockets and years wasted down the drain.
No, the only way to begin the process is to STOP any/all objectifications of women.
Phase II – Redefine Masculinity
Long gone are the days when the contemporary male could look up to the image of the cowboy, for example, for an image of masculinity. Also long gone are the communities and family structures which naturally conveyed male characteristics from one generation to the next. Instead, we have worlds of clueless, lost boys and men who are grasping onto deadly and dangerous activities to define themselves. Gangs are one frightening example. The PUA/Seduction community is another. A fatal one too is the metro-sexual. All of these weaken us, and distract us from what could truly serve.
What we need is a new image of the modern man. We also need new intelligence. Many of us are trapped in bogus, antiquated archetypes which have no meaning to most men. The “Alpha Male”, for example, is one such type.
For some reason, men have fallen under the illusion that alpha males have their pick of the women and therefore receive all of the success socially. This is not true. It might work that way in the jungle, but not in this culture and in this time. Certainly, alpha males do exist, but trust me – they also struggle with women and have fallen behind too. All too often, I meet young men – particularly those in the PUA community – who brashly and transparently attempt to demonstrate ‘alpha’ characteristics which come across frighteningly insecure.
Here’s one item cleaned-up right now: If you are an alpha man, bravo – you were born that way, and you still certainly feel clueless and powerless. If you are not – stop trying to be one…you will NEVER be one. It is innate, and has long ago been decided. Forget about it and move on.
What all men need are a close-knit community of men. Each individual needs mentorship, and then he needs to pass what he learns on to the next guy. A channel, so to speak, of masculinity must open up with men sharing, supporting and mentoring each other. This community must rise up out of the pain and anger men now feel. It must develop around the cultivation of masculinity.
Lets quickly look at some key concepts. These words will help us, and are aspects that we can develop into our lives.
- Assertiveness
- Confidence
- Security
- Autonomy
- Focus/Aim/Mission/Purpose
- Challenge & Austerity
These will be discussed in 2 weeks time when we pull this topic apart. But, for now, just accept yourself as you are because trust me, you will have to eventually…so, why not now?
Phase III – Stop Tolerating Bad Behavior
Lets face it, most men allow women to push them around. Women are not to blame for this, as they are secretly testing these men to see how strong and sturdy their spine is. So, it’s not bad behavior we’re actually talking about. Rather, it’s a line of behavior that we’ve allowed to develop given our own gender’s decline. Women intuitively know that there are very few good men out there, and they want to find them…so, they test and test and test…
Once a man is aligned internally with some of the principles outlined in Phase II (purpose and autonomy, for example) he develops this spine which enables him to steer the boat of his life first and then the relationship (or date) second.
One of the consequences though of the decline of men is that women test, and they often do so in very very bad ways. We cannot stop this, of course, but we can learn how to handle and redirect bad behavior.
Here are some key ideas to consider:
- The best way a man can handle these tests is to use humor while maintaining his position and focus.
- One of the chief signs that a man is blown off course by a woman is he gets irritated and angry.
- Men must learn how to be assertive, which involves growing out of passive/aggressive behavior patterns.
Humor, Anger, Assertiveness…three BIG concepts that men fall short on in my experience. By making some key adjustments, he can realign himself and become naturally more adept and skilled at managing these key tests that women utilize.
Phase IV – Get A Life, A REAL One
The final phase is when the principles in phases 1-3 are activated into ones lifestyle. There is a subtle, slow, alchemical shift in a man’s life if he can weather the challenges and storms which will inevitably test him along the way to something I call “true autonomy”.
He will confront his biggest fears, he will restructure – slowly and intuitively – his relationships, he will find himself in the company of men who support and encourage while also testing and challenging him, he will drop the old baggage he carries with him, and he will understand what it means to be a man in the world.
Here’s something you may not realize about women….about how they watch you, how they take you in, how they observe and measure you:
How A Man Lives Is How A Man Loves
In other words, your life and your relationship to IT is precisely how you will relate to HER too. So, if you meet an amazing woman, and you’re life is not in order, she will recognize this in her biology and move on to the next guy. Genetically, she wants a secure, strong male…and you are not it. The ultimate test is HOW you live your life and your relationship to it. If you love your life and are secure within it, if you treat it with care and value, she will want to join you.
Why would she want to enter into a life which is fraught with chaos, confusion and negativity? There is no way to perform AROUND this, there is no way to pretend that you have your shit together if you don’t. That’s insulting to women. Instead, get your life together and carve out a meaningful place for yourself. Fight for this, I say. Forget about everything else.
If you are able to go through this process, if you are able to give yourself to your life in a truly masculine way, you will have no further problems with women. Trust me.
Live your life, embrace these masculine principles, and quite naturally the women “thing” will clear up.
Lets close with this, again harkening back to my quote from last week:
“If meeting, dating or relating with women, and the improvement of this area in life, is your NUMBER 1 priority you are already screwed”
BUT, if you make your LIFE your number 1 priority…if you make your own masculine/spiritual process number 1, the horse moves in front of the cart. This process can take on many shapes and many forms (career, travel, service, etc). If you can move YOUR life into the number 1 position, you’ve managed to handle this most difficult aspect.
It seems counter-intuitive, as most of you men reading this are probably VERY concerned about your women troubles…but, if you focus on them, they will worsen. Rather, focus on YOU, grow something real and male…and the ‘women troubles’ with cease to exist.
From this position, you can more fully operate, you can develop real confidence, your spine will straighten (physically, emotionally, psychically), your life will have meaning. AND – very important – your sense of self-esteem will no longer be dependent upon the acceptance of a woman…it will be intact already.
Suddenly, you can realize that GIVING security to her is your true nature. Providing this is the essence of being a man.
But, you cannot provide it if you do not posses it within yourself first. Learn and ponder this….it’s important.
Next week I’ll discuss “Phase I – Fixing The Power Drain: Stop Objectifying Women.”
Until then…
Sn.
Continue Reading Part III In This Series–>: “The Feminism Problem (Part III): Stop Objectifying Women”
<–Read The First Article In This Series:“The Feminism Problem (Part I)”
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About the Author: Stephen Nash is the founder of Cutting Edge Image Consulting. He is an Original Pick-up Artist and a well documented expert. Stephen has worked with thousands of clients, and is the author of the best-selling 
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Brad | Sep 3, 2009 | Reply
Right on once again, my friend.
I often tell guys to keep this in mind:
“Women like to COME ALONG for the ride… but they don’t want to BE the ride…”
Often, you’ll hear guys make comments about how they get get phone numbers, get laid, etc… but they can never get a woman to “stick” for more than a few weeks or months…
… and just like you’ve alluded to above, it’s because after the tips, tricks, psychology, planning, and thought, at the end of the day – you are still you, and unless that core makes a shift, she will ALWAYS discover that everything that she thought you were was merely smoke and mirrors.
The other bad thing about it is the more and more you discover these tips and tricks and make it a point to go for these short term fixes, the more and more you begin to actually LOSE faith in women as a whole, because a lot of the women you target, or have experience with are cheap and have little to no morals… so ultimately, your frame shifts in a negative, unhealthy direction.
Speaking from experience
B
Dan Donche | Sep 3, 2009 | Reply
My god, man, this is exactly what guys need more than anything else. I’ve been thinking thoughts along these lines for a long time now, and I’m glad I’m not the only one who recognizes that it’s not about trying to fulfill your life by nailing lots of women, it’s about getting your life together FIRST, which leads to success with women. Women are the bonus, not the purpose. Phenomenal job, Stephen, once again.
Kaare Fog | Sep 4, 2009 | Reply
Thanks a lot that there is finally a man who has grown out of the pick-up-artist scene and starts to attack this very important subject about feminism head-on.
I agree with nearly all that has been said here. But still, this is not enough.
I do not live in the USA, but in Europe. In my country, divorce rates suddenly increased with an extremely steep curve exactly in the years 1969-70 when feminism broke through. Shortly afterwards, birth rates fell dramatically.
This happened just when I was a young man who was to find out how to cope with adult life. And just at that time, all the “rules” about how men and women should interact suddenly changed. I was not flexible enough to grasp the new rules, and as a result, I have lived my whole life with nearly no sexual interaction with women, which of course has been a great source of frustration.
Over the years, I have of course speculated what was wrong – with me and/or the community – but it has taken me awfully many years to gradually understand where the mistakes and problems are, because all inputs you get from women, now matter how good their intentions are, are directly misleading. You must listen to men, not to women. The conclusions I have arrived at are very similar to yours. For instance, I agree that feelings of guilt are an important part of it. I would add that this feeling is first created by one´s mother, who, at least in my case, taught me that women are innocent angels and victims to offences caused by the men, who are selfish and not so good as women. Unfortunately, just when I moved out for myself and left my mother´s influence behind, feminists appeared on the scene and told the same story. In one case, I was told directly that because I am born a man, I must always be guilty, no matter what I do. I did not and do not believe it, but if you are sensitive in the way that I am, it does affect you nevertheless.
There are many other issues; this one about gulit is just one of them.
Being older now, I see with sadness how many younger men do the same mistakes as I did – being all too willing to accept the feeling of collective guilt, for instance. Therefore, I have started to write books about these problems. I have written and edited one book, up to now, which is based to a large extent on scientific evidence, for instance on the biological differences between the sexes. Unfortunately, this is politically incorrect in my country, and although I am sure the book is of high quality, it was impossible to find a publisher who would print it, simply because a book with that content, no matter how well it is written, cannot find a publisher. So I made my own publishing company and had it printed. I am now working on book number 2, and book number 3 is planned.
I have always been a focused person. I am now very focused on this. In addition I have previously been very foucused on scientific research (as a biologist/chemist), and during the last twenty years, I have been very focused on nature conservation projects, rescuing populations of threatened animals from going extinct. I have had considerable success with this, and many younger men have joined in and created a fine community of persons working with these matters in my home country and in many neighbouring countries.
I have also been working hard with certain environmental issues.
All this is fine, and I earn enough for my living, but you do not get rich when you work for nature conservation, especially not if you partially do it in an idealistic way.
I have read a lot of stuff from many pick-up-artists. In a way, it has helped me. I have become more sure that the ways that I now look at the relations and tensions between man and women, are to the point. It has relieved me of the deep frustration caused by sensing that something is fundamentally wrong, but you cannot see what it is. Now I feel more sure what it is, and that has a marked positive effect on my wellbeing. Also, it makes me less desperate in relation to attractive women, and more confident that I am doing the right things.
I agree nearly hundred percent with your writings, Stephen Nash. Except for that point that even when you are very focused, and even if you work systematically over the years to understand things and improve yourself rather than seeking a quick fix, even then there is absolutely no guarantee for any improvement in your relations with women. Luck is a part of it, and in a number of cases, I simple have had bad luck. Also, I am clearly not egoistic enough – egoism and willigness to push your competitors aside may be crucial, and unfortunately, that is not the way I am. And of course, I simply may somehow be helplessly unattractive – although I have not been able to see why and how this should be the case.
One major flaw is that I am still very bad at seeing when I am being tested by women. If you do not understand that you are being tested, you will usually fail the tests.
Summing up, even if you work intensively with developing your personality, while still staying true to your inner self, and even if you are ambitious, focused, and do everything else right, you may still fail completely with women.
So I stand here after all these years and feel it wrong to blame everything om myself and my fellow men. I cannot help but criticizing the women. Women often have a disturbingly bad taste in their cohoice of men. They have the power, as you say, so they need not exert themselves to be decent persons and to suppress their egoism. Just like we men are often very bad at seeing the person behind the facade when we see a beautiful woman, women are often very bad at seeing the person behind the facade of a charming man. And, most disturbingly, even if they see the person, they still choose him. Many women simply have a bad taste. If a man is a “good” person, a “nice guy” somehow, that in itself disqualifies him as a partner. Not always, luckily, but too often.
I think there is no solution to me personally or to any other individual man. But there is a solution on community level – you can affect the general understanding of what relations between man and women are and should be. This is why my personal approach is to write books, and to engage very much in public debate in my country, with some limited success. Things are slowly moving, at last.
Imagine | Sep 4, 2009 | Reply
Hi Stephen,
I always like to work on everything– Relationships, school works, art works, social interections. A friend of mime calls ne “mechanic” and sometimes “nurse”. That acually hurts my feelings as she misunderstands me. I know success is nothing but hard work.(we had to learn how to walk,how to eat with a fork after hard work and after failing many times) There is nothing wrong emplimentation of ideas. But some people are very engry about doing emplimentation. that’s why i decide to not have a discussion about how the laws of attraction works by joining the right parts of emotion together or mechanising the right energy. I wonder why people hate so much to smithing emotions and to have a right mind set. But the fact is This is how we grow. We build up our civilization by doing so. Tell us more about what is inside the emotional ice-burg. Why are we so paralized to move? Why is this works in same fashon, same manner for both men and women?
Stephen Nash | Sep 4, 2009 | Reply
Great comments everyone. Dan – nice gravatar (everyone needs one of those).
Brad – my experience precisely, and it shows something very true. There are definite ‘levels’ that exist socially, and between men and women. For lack of a better concept, lets call them “levels of attraction”. What happens is that once we resort to gimmicks and falsehood, we attract that in return. Shallow meets shallow, in other words. This is not a recipe for health, particularly when the male (in this case) is in fact performing. The only sustainable way to truly attract and keep women in ones life is to grow…into new and higher levels. I too learned this the hard way.
Michael | Sep 5, 2009 | Reply
Stephen,
Great article. Although I have to admit that I don’t take quite as dim a view of The Community.
1) Even with all this going on, with the balance of power socially gone over ‘too far’ to women, I am finding that, after all is said and done, I am still much happier being a man. When it comes to dating say, I get to choose whom I get to pursue, whereas the woman is pretty much stuck with whomever has the balls to approach.
2) I have actually found myself losing the anger I had at women when I was younger. I don’t see them having any more social power than I do, for one reason. For example, I see my single female friends in their 30′s wonder if they will ever meet their Mr Right, and I am picking up a sense of real concern and even urgency from them about this. They’ve had to deal with tough break-ups too, often where the guy left them for a less-mature woman who just happens to have a younger, tighter body. They also know that, when it comes to finding a suitable partner, a few more years of time probably will be much harder on them than it will be on a guy the same age. They also know that the guys they’d be the most into tend to go for women a decade younger.
Anyway, that’s my take on this…
-Michael
Dan | Sep 5, 2009 | Reply
Stephen,
You’re certainly right that much ‘PUA community’ doctrine is “a dressed-up, fancy way of objectifying women.” In ackonwledging this, your article is part of the solution.
I think the problem goes even deeper than this though. As someone who works in the history and philosophy of science, and who has also spent a lot of time interacting with the PUA community, I believe there are two points that are rarely acknowledged:
1) There’s good research indicating that a lot of community doctrine actually helps guys better approximate the behaviour patterns of a pathological narcissist, as outline in the DSM-IV. Some the parallels are kind of shocking, actually. Guys may be getting “success” with all this stuff, but at what cost?
2) The more pressing concern for contemporary feminists isn’t so much the objectification of women, but androcentrism –that is, having a male-centered perspective be mistaken as the ideal for how how men and women should relate to each other (and if point 1 is correct, then it isn’t just a male-centered perspective, but an overly narcissistic male perspective).
-Dan
Michael | Sep 5, 2009 | Reply
So to sum up what I said…
1) As guys, it is so much easier for us to improve our social power than it is for women to do the same for themselves.
2) We men also have so much more time to do so. A 35-year-old man who applies himself ‘in the right way’ (I know, easier said than done) has every hope of putting himself in a position where he has real choice in his dating life. The prospects of a 35-year-old woman who wants to have children tend to be more urgent.
3) As men, we have great emotional power within us–we just need to reclaim it.
4) Ironically, feminism has given the men who know their own strength even greater social power. As there aren’t as many of us nowadays, the few that are tapped into their inner strength have more power and choice with women because we are the few who can give women what they really crave. This might sound cynical, but it is true.
Imagine | Sep 6, 2009 | Reply
Hi spephen,
I want to tell you my solution about a man and woman relationships. A week ago i did not know it now i know. My fall in love explore the inner truth of relationship to me very acurately and vividly. last week I met Eric by the Norwalk river. Eric is a scientist– envornmental scientist. He described me how water has its own life. he is an original feeling talker. A great believer.
Now for a week we are lost in each other’s world.
Eric told me a worderful thing. he said ” differences are beautiful. Two people are always different in their social settings, in their psyo-bio bodyly envornmet, in their genetic culture. But all these differences become beautiful when the two persons know the beauty of how the universe works,how human body works( need to spend some time with aquaring knowledge)and how much human need the differences. Differencess are nothing but verity. Without verity human life is dull. and not only that but also both party have to have their own office to work on the universe. Love is nothing but the union of two free persons who are egerly,with love working on the universe at their won office. no difference will be allowed by the unversal law. It’s not only the matter of a masculine man. It is everything!! It is the happiest news as if the two weathers are meeting up with their beauty and verity. It’s all about acceptance, wonder, joy, magic.” Then he said “Imagine, please leave me if you have a bit of recentment about anything in your mind. Sorry, i wont take your bullcrap, I wont polute my water.”
Stephen, can you feel how much i’m in love with him?
tim | Sep 10, 2009 | Reply
Hey Stephen,
Since this is an article/series of a somewhat philosophical nature, I feel compelled to respond. I think you make some good points and say some things that I don’t like as much. I agree and support that people should get a life (especially men, most women have lives, it seems). I like my life a lot better now that I’ve finally found one. I definetely think that this is an asset when it comes to women, because otherwise, in order to DHV, one would have to lie. For me, too, having a life is something important independently of women. What I don’t like is the negative things you say about the community. I believe that most of them are great guys working to improve themselves. I also don’t like your emphasis on natural roles in relationships. I have a mother who earns much less money than my father and still their relationship is fucked up. I don’t believe in this very restrictive role pattern that seems to have been in vogue about a million years ago as being the ‘true’ one.
And lastly, I don’t like the title. I don’t think feminism is a problem. An old friend of mine is a feminist (she said it herself). She does very good things, like discussing abortion with politicians (here it is legal, but some politicians don’t seem to get it). she is quite the opposite of the hard-ass women you describe. So i don’t think feminism is a problem. I think it’s a good movement and men should welcome it. I also don’t think feminism is for guys ‘suddenly’ becoming insecure whimps. That’s just something that grows out of the protection the modern environment brings. If you are never exposed to danger, how can you get used ot it?
But aside from these flaws, this is one of the few articles that stress that tells people to get out there and seek a purpose. that’s a good message and everybody should be aware of it.
yours,
tim
Michael | Sep 11, 2009 | Reply
Hey Stephen,
I reread your article. You are so much on point. My big issue is that I still find myself feeling that happiness will come when I find a great woman–and THAT will give me the motivation to pursue my mission. I know that this is putting the cart before the horse, but I have to admit that it is an issue that pops up for me, something I struggle with.
Anyway, I am looking forward to your other articles on this….
Kaare Fog | Sep 11, 2009 | Reply
Some comments, especially to “Tim”. Tim says: “What I don’t like is the negative things you say about the community”. Maybe Tim has a point here. Maybe it is too easy to disparage the community. It is a good question whether the dating/pick-up gurus give valuable help to boost the self confidence of unsecure men, or whether they turn otherwise healthy persons into “pathological narcissists”. This question is too important to be cleared off with a few smart remarks. Also: Do the dating tips actually work? We read a lot of success stories, but shouldn´t we also see some of the failure stories? How come that most dating gurus themselves fail at establishing lasting relationships? Is it just because they are players and do not want stable relationships, or . . . ? Personally I guess that the dating advice is helpful and better than nothing, but of course not fool-proof. But it would be nice to have some more reliable evidence – the value of the advice is still just a postulate, illustrated by success stories of unknown general validity.
Contrary to Tim I do think that feminism is a problem – a large problem. Of course there are feminist women who are nice persons, that does not prove anything. In the north European countries, there is a (coincidental or real) correlation between feminism and the relations between the sexes. When feminism is strong, birth rates are low, there is much denunciation of men in public debate, and the debate is very onesided. When feminism is weaker, birth rates are higher, and the public debate is more balanced. This happens at different points of time in different countries.
In my view, the effects of feminism are not just superficial – they go very deep. You may take every feature that you can think of which makes a man attractive in the eyes of women. And for every feature you will realize that feminism attacks exactly that. At its core, feminism seems to be an attack on sexual relationships between men and women at all. But it is disguised as a quest for justice and equality, and therefore many women and men sympathize with it. I support justice and equality, for instance equal opportunity for all. I will not criticize that part of feminism. What I criticize is the more psychological part of feminism which seems to paint a picture of men as evil beings and to aim at dismantling the all-important self-confidence of men.
Stephen Nash | Sep 14, 2009 | Reply
I might post a more lengthy response down the road, but, Tim – you need to reread the article my friend. The title is discussed and clarified. As for the dim view of the community, I am sure others have a less-dim one – but mine is forged from experience, LOTS of it. You’re welcome to yours, of course. But, I’ve seen (many times) perfectly decent young men distorted and confused by what is offered in the scene 99 times out of 100. Also, the coaches tend to be worse than the students. I don’t think the scene is helpful to men, save a few sparse coaches and ideas. What is offered is a band-aid line of gimmicks when what is needed is an entirely new direction. This will be explained in the forthcoming posts, as I outline what I view to be the road we need to follow. These are just my ideas, of course. I am sure there are many who disagree.
AND, thanks for the comment btw. All views are welcome here.
Sn.
Brad | Sep 14, 2009 | Reply
Two of my new favorite quotes that I just made up this week… lol:
“Don’t put band aids on bullshit”
-and-
“The big picture is bigger than most people can picture”
I think they fit in nicely with what you’re trying to say.
We need to do a podcast btw… hit me up.
Michael | Sep 15, 2009 | Reply
As I said in a previous post on here, I struggle with ‘not letting the cart go before the horse’. In the meanwhile, I found myself noticing the following: (Stephen, this might be getting off-topic, so I should apologize in advance…)
1) Cold-approaching (what The Community espouses) is not a a terrific way to meet women. Unless you are great at establishing connections, the flake-out factor is pretty high. She’s a lot more likely to flake on a date made with the guy from the supermarket than she would a guy from her class or social circle. What’s usually missing with the supermarket guy is trust and a story. In fact, if the supermarket guy is too good at cold-approaching, she might stay away from him because she thinks he is a player!
2) I’m noticing a lot of really attractive women with guys who don’t cold-approach, and more to the point, guys who *couldn’t* cold-approach!
I’m not saying that I think cold-approaching is bad. The ability to do so well is crucial when you do see *her* and you want to meet her. But we need to keep in mind that the art of cold-approaching is really about trying to create in the span of a few minutes something that would naturally be there between two attractive compatible members of the opposite sex who have met through more ‘naturally’. And that is often a tall to impossible order.
Imagine | Sep 16, 2009 | Reply
Hi Stephen,
I’m from Asam, India. We have a singer in our country, we love him so much for his incredible voice. His mame is Vopen Hagarica. he has a femous song (lyrics and composed by him) that says (Translation) “If the sky is a piece of paper and the moon is a paper moon, is there any meaning for the moon lights?” That all we need Stephen –adding life to life.
Question like this– why and how would i live?,How is life and living related to one another? How life differs from death? Once we found the answer in our life experience , we are able to live, and love will come to us to sit at our feet. This is not a matter of talking, this is a matter of feeling, observeing,”make things mine”.
.. like buying a thing from the store–once we pay for the thing, the thing belongs to us. Exatly like that we need to pay for every single thing (tangible , intangible) by using our time and intellegent to make it ours.costing gives a greater understunding of belonging or how borning of a love becomes real for us (after nine years of pregnancy with love-just kidding!)
Stephen do what’s you doing, keep doing good things. I’m with you.
Yours
Imagine
Michael | Sep 16, 2009 | Reply
Well, here’s 2 more cents from me…about men and our relationship to women….
As guys, on the one hand, we have the capability for something that women in general do not have (at least nearly as much)–autonomy. We can walk alone. We’re ‘allowed to’ walk alone without being judged by society for that. We have lost touch with that to some extent. However, we still aren’t good at asking for help, even when we need it, and we’re not good at giving each other help. We tend to view each other as ‘competition’ sometimes.
On the other hand, women are much better than we are about building around them a community. Their friends are never far away when they are needed.
This really plays itself out throughout the course of many a relationship between a man and a woman. The man often relies on the woman not only for sex, but also to get his neglected emotional needs met–the needs he can’t get met through his male friends. He also relies on her to provide direction in his life–hey, he doesn’t like his job and his hobbies don’t mean much to him either. However, the woman still has her friends to get her emotional needs met. And even her family and her friend’s projects to give her purpose.
Who do you think will take the breakup harder?
My point is that we guys do have to build in a sense of community with each other. And we do need to get back in touch with our missions.
Jorge | Sep 17, 2009 | Reply
I totally agree with this. All my life I never concerned myself with getting a relationship. Throughout high school I was focused on getting into a good college, and this focus is something that has been with me my whole life. I want a career before I can even think about a healthy relationship, and consequently, I’ve never had one. People tend to think there’s something wrong with me, why has he never had a girlfriend? This type of thinking has started to affect me, I should just point them to your article. I come from an environment where the girls have kids at a young age, where neither the man (boy) or the woman (girl) have their life straight, and I think to myself, wow I dont want that.
I have a question though. Your article has made me feel more guilty about my own sexual desires, I mean my body doesn’t understand anything about life purpose and goals. Are you telling me to suppress that? Are you telling us that it’s wrong to have some fun (sex) as you figure things out?
Casandra Ross | Sep 19, 2009 | Reply
Dear Stephen,
I would read some of your article and then get up and dance around the living room. Then I would sit down again and read some more.
Your writing style is a tad heady for my taste; however, it was generally holding my attention.
At one point I was reading along as usual when I realized that I was getting aroused. Curious, I went back to see what I had just read. It said-
“grow something real and male…..”
LOL. Maybe there is something to subliminal messages.
I may re-read your article and respond in the future from a more intellectual perspective. We’ll see.
Sincerely, Casandra.
Sherrie Rose (The Love Linguist) | Oct 23, 2009 | Reply
Stephen,
You are MY HERO!
In fact, I might go as far as saying you may be helping our planet and generations to come. We need sexual polarity for sexual dynamics (www.sexualdynamics.com) or we will become an androgynous, boring race of people.
You wrote: “What we need is a new image of the modern man. We also need new intelligence. Many of us are trapped in bogus, antiquated archetypes which have no meaning to most men. The “Alpha Male”, for example, is one such type.”
- and -
“Lets quickly look at some key concepts. These words will help us, and are aspects that we can develop into our lives.”
* Assertiveness
* Confidence
* Security
* Autonomy
* Focus/Aim/Mission/Purpose
* Challenge & Austerity
Stephen, we’ve met and spoken at length. I use terms like “Chairman of the Relationship” and “Masterman” (check the urban dictionary).
I applaud and support you on your mission. Anything to get the love bucket filled and expanding!
Best,
Sherrie Rose
“The Love Linguist”
Smith | Dec 24, 2010 | Reply
Just adding something: the themes touched on here may be strongly related to the rising ‘age of adulthood’ in our times.
That is, it takes longer today to attain traditional markers of adulthood. Not so for the baby-boomer generation (those born in the 20 odd years post-world war 2), which acts as our larger cultural template, or our terms-of-reference for how life ‘should’ be like.
This is all over the Western world, and is not restricted to one nation.
The baby-boomers lived in a time of abundance, which, in an anthropological sense, pushes down marriage ages (for the men). The baby-boomers got married in their early twenties. They were able to afford housing without too much of a stretch.
Well paid jobs were more plentifully available for the middle and working class, and people did not have to spend as many years in on-going education to be able to get these jobs.
There is more to it than this, but the gist of it is that people were ‘adults’ ready for marriage at age 20, and the baby-boomers lived in times that made this possible.
Today, it may take young people another 10 years before they are at the ‘ready’ point, vis a vie housing, education, ‘secure’ income, etc, that baby-boomers were at age 20.
So, age 30 is closer to the ‘true’ age of adulthood today. The median ages of first marriage reflect this generally in Western societies – both bride and groom are close to, sometimes over, 30 years of age.
These are our times, and our lot. That being said, it is somewhat unhealthy.
Compared to the baby-boomer experience (our own cultural reference point), young men today (middle class, caucasian men) often experience another 10 years (a decade!) of jumping through hoops to be deemed ‘eligible’ to pair-bond, and begin a family. Yes there can be sex and relationships in the interim, but it is often not secure.
The (now) 10 years extra is causing large cultural ripples. Just one of these is a rising tide of anger and misogyny (there are also other reasons for the misogyny growing). Men naturally want to have a normal secure relationship, and these feelings do not begin at age 30.
When you consider that people are biologically ‘adult’ at the onset of puberty at around age 12 or 13, waiting till roughly age 30 to pair-bond and breed is getting into an unnatural zone. For most of human existence (our own evolutionary environment where the basis of all our innate behaviour developed), most men and women did not even LIVE to see age 30…