1) Is approaching the only way you are meeting new women? Are you also (hopefully) growing your social circuit and naturally meeting more women? This is key – because if you are able to meet women this way, which is the far better way to attract women into relationships, the interactions are much more relaxed and normal – very different than the cold approach mindset.

2) If you are doing #1, and are using cold approaches as a way to build a social circle and to practice social skills (the best attitude to have towards cold approaches IMO), then drop them slowly, but surely. Drop what is the easiest for now, then work with that for a bit, then drop the next easiest etc. Be intelligent about this. If approaching is very hard, but flirting and teasing comes more naturally – then drop the routines based around this skill. Is that clear?

I never argue with a man who wants to approach a woman – go for it, all the way I say. My point is to do it as yourself – but if you need training wheels, use them – by all means. Don’t create another excuse not to approach and learn. But if that is the only way you are meeting women, you are not yet even at the starting line for the big game.

SN.

OK. So let’s say that I drop all routines. The next time I approach an attractive woman, what am I supposed to say? I’m just not sure. If I wait for something spontaneous to come out, my past experience was that I would clam up or go into interview mode. What should I say?

BTW, I bought your HTGAG book in August, and it was great. It helped me out a lot… especially what you had to say about masculine identity and purpose. Good stuff.

Thanks for all the comments. I love it when people reply to posts. It really helps me think thru things further, as well as helps me understand where I might be able to make myself clearer in my teaching philosophy.

All I can realy relay here is my experience as well as what I have observed. OK? So, here are some replies to some of what was asked about above:

First of all – and this is a very important point. You always attract at your level. You cannot attract a woman who lives at a higher social level than you. So, if she is a “10″ and you are a “5″ – regardless of what you say to her – you will not attract her. You might get her to laugh at some things that a “10″-guy might say, but as far as actually attracting her into a palpable romantic tension (necessary for a sexual encounter, as well as a long-term relationship), no words or gimmicks you say will help you. This is why I place the emphasis on self-development and in becoming that which you seek. If you experience low-to-no success with women, and yet you still believe that a kit of gimmicks will get you to the promised land, you are sorely, sorely mistaken.

In my work, I place the emphasis on lifestyle and personal development. Becoming yourself. Routines, which I mentioned in the paragraphs above, are the beginning – the necessary training wheels. But like any boy, you have to drop them eventually – whether they are yours or his, or Style’s or whomever’s…being real demands nothing canned. Women interested in real relationships will not be attracted to you unless you bring the real goods to the table. Again, you attract at your own level. If you want to attract women of a higher quality, you will have to raise your level first. Allowing yourself to believe that you can mimic this implies a lack of experience – which is FINE. Gaining that might be the next hurdle.

I am not an advocate of “the game” nor of “pick-up” – its jargon and mentality are no longer suitable for me. However, in the experience of ProHo, flaking went up astronomically the more structured we got…that’s a fact. Women could smell the BS on our carefully crafted words and stunts…and they ran for the hills (and not the Hollywood Hills either mind you). Mystery, Style and I were the only ones who got laid at all in the final three months I was there. The rest tried nobly, but came home empty handed each and every night. Experience tends to met this out for everyone though.

Ultimately guys, if you are looking for higher quality women, you will have to raise the quality of yourselves first. You cannot mimic what you do not have. Just can’t be done. Any belief other than that – in my experience only – implies a lack of experience…which is why I don’t buy any of it, anymore.

The CEIC model embraces routines only in-so-far as helping guys learn the actual skills beneath them. Being willing to drop the training wheels is not for the faint of heart – not at all – but separating the wheat from the chaff happens in all walks of life, each and every day. Why should we be any different?

SN.

Jim

That being said, I’m not ready for unscripted conversations during a pickup. Just not yet, anyway. I don’t want to go back to the days when I met a pretty women and had nothing to say, so I’d go into interview mode: where are you from, what do you do, blah, blah, blah. There’s a whole lot to be said for being fun, and routines give you a surefire and tested way to be way more fun and interesting than most guys.

I think that, for me at least, the best path is to eventually develop my OWN routines. Tell my own stories, bring up my own conversations topics. It will be scripted out and tested, yes, but it will be ALL me. Then I would avoid the problems that Stephen is talking about, right? No dishonesty, no incongruence.

What do you guys think?

routine use is like religon – its repuation is known through the people who use them.
in and of itself – a routine based style is neither good nor bad.

Stephen sounds like a guy who has given up eating pizza and now gets judgemental whenever he sees someone eating pizza (”i just don’t like to see someone ruining their health…”)

IMO, he’s making too big a deal of this. using routines may or may not be the best way to learn – but it is not going to kill off your masculinity or corrode your personality. thats ridiculous.
He’s confusing means (using routines) with ends (being socially dominant).
Routine usage is a PROVEN way of learning. Stephen himself is an example of its benefits – as are TD, and the MM and VA lot. if he’s come up with what he thinks is a better way… great! but the degree to which he’s bashing routines here is more a reflection of where he’s at then what students are at, IMO.
RSD have also moved away from routine based teachings – and TD, more acceptingly, simply puts it as – “i used to do that, now i do this and right now i think this is better”. no sweat under the collar.

A problem i forsee in natural games teachings are Worthiness issues. everyone has barriers – some people can game a 5 beautifully, but start weirding out at a 6 and some people can game a 9.5 beautifully but start weirding out at 9.5632 etc.
with routines, at least you have something to say. a natural games student, with no real stock material will get even more uncomfortable in this situation. Having something to say gives you confidence, going freestyle before your ready to… will have to deal with this in his own way.

not a bad post – would be better if he mentioned what he proposes as an alternative to teaching routines. all this big chunk “real man” stuff sounds nice, but turning a regular Joe into one is a different matter.

cheers,
Sting

SN.